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Post by xdesperado on Mar 20, 2016 20:36:40 GMT -5
The concern for ap removal at range has me thinking about a group with flash freeze, ethereal anguish, pinning shot and crippling strikes thrown in for good mesure- that aught to nerf those baddies good. :-p Alternatively I might do Kincaid (CS) and Fyona (reckoning) as a pair for the close range targets and Vincent (FF) with Selen (PS) for range. Overkill yes, but possibly fun overkill. It's not just the AP removal but the ability to do AoE damage at 4+ range that had me reconsidering my party mix. Deathwalkers just crushes anything within 3 squares but even with +MP talents and gear ranged enemies, especially in groups get tricky to deal with. Tamilin adding a bit of Ranged Onslaught and Kjartan adding some Firestorm will help but that's still a few levels away for current party. While a bit SP intensive at lower levels Selen with Pinning Shot 5 can effectively handle most ranged threats at the lower levels until Kjartan gets Firestorm up and as an added bonus reduce the number of longer ranged attacks from any enemies she doesn't kill outright. Tamilin hitting a single ranged threat with either Silent Stalker or Aimed shot just isn't as effective and if she fails to kill the target they still get full attacks. Nothing hurts as bad as watching Tamilin leave a target with under 20HP and then get hit with 100-200HP damage in return.
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Post by En1gma on Mar 20, 2016 20:40:11 GMT -5
Pinning Shot for the win, once again. I've always noticed that difference between the two, but never heard it in words: Selen will steal an attack if she can't kill something, but if Tamilin fails to bring down that mob, they have full attacks and the group suffers because of it.
Well said, sir.
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Post by ntsheep on Mar 20, 2016 21:14:18 GMT -5
I'm sure I must be in charge of some very important, like crew morale or chocolate or toads or maybe this and that,,, oh then there's the thing,,,, and the multi phasit whacamacallits,,,, the doo hickeys,,,,,, the spaced out digifram,,,,,,, the DoD,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 20, 2016 21:19:52 GMT -5
I'm sure I must be in charge of some very important, like crew morale or chocolate or toads or maybe this and that,,, oh then there's the thing,,,, and the multi phasit whacamacallits,,,, the doo hickeys,,,,,, the spaced out digifram,,,,,,, the DoD,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, You can be in charge of the cat, keep him away from steel song unless there's a fight, if there is a fight with Song let him take the claws out... It's a VERY important job.
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Post by fallen on Mar 20, 2016 22:27:09 GMT -5
DEATHSTALKERS Kincaid Kjartan Fyona SelenThis group is focused first on reducing enemies Armor and Resistances then stripping AP and ability to deal damage. Killer group post! Love to see that one put up here as one of the best possible combinations, bringing together so many of the -Armor, -Res, -Magical Res Talents! Heck, almost all of them!
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Mar 21, 2016 0:33:13 GMT -5
Here we go again You realize I can't help myself, right?? The Iron Curtain: Defense heavy group, meant to be an immovable force that marches inexorably forward, never giving up a space to the enemy. Vraes: Main Battle Tank. Mace and Shield --Using Phalanx, Mid-Stone Skin, and Crushing Blow. --Buff heavy, low cost attack. Always with a shield, as it provides him with the best possible defense. I like maces. They smash things. KJ: Curse/Buff Support --Choking Ash, then either Pureflame Shield, Burning Blades, and finally Firestorm or Fireboltas main attack Fyona: Main Battle Tank. Mace and Shield --Shield of Cortias maxed, then Righteous Fervor or Consecrated Defense. Attacks go for Reckoning or Zeaous Strikes. Selen: Curse Support --Pinning Shot 5 and Dance of Shadows make up her base, then she augments with Punishing Blades and Quicksilver Defense so she can join in the fun The Iron Curtain is one of my oldest groups, but I never rebooted it after my phone corrupted, so it never saw the CoD. CdrPlatypus has made some great tweaks to this group, maybe he will weigh in... My changes to Iron Curtain are to have Vraes go into berserk rage for late game dmg, eventually take selen to pinning shot 8 for the wider field of fire. For KJ; CA,FS, BB...maybe MS very late. As far as its performance in COD, having Firestorm 5+ is extremely useful and fun. For Fyona definitely go Reckoning for her main attack. AOE , holy dmg, -dmg, -ap, and eventually -parry. Use 3ap 1 handed hammer and load up on some sp drain gear.
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Post by fallen on Mar 21, 2016 8:58:50 GMT -5
Here we go again You realize I can't help myself, right?? The Iron Curtain:
My changes to Iron Curtain are to have Vraes go into berserk rage for late game dmg, eventually take selen to pinning shot 8 for the wider field of fire. For KJ; CA,FS, BB...maybe MS very late. As far as its performance in COD, having Firestorm 5+ is extremely useful and fun. For Fyona definitely go Reckoning for her main attack. AOE , holy dmg, -dmg, -ap, and eventually -parry. Use 3ap 1 handed hammer and load up on some sp drain gear. Wow, you forsake the shield? Very interesting. I love Fyona with a shield when she's up front. I should play more 2H hammer. I guess using the Iron Curtain build, you've stacked enough defense it doesn't matter? Is she a pinch hitter from the back line, after Strickening is done, or is she out on the front?
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Post by Rashar on Mar 21, 2016 10:16:54 GMT -5
I decided to give my 2 cents aswell, in all honesty I have not tried out the other 4 heroes (yet). I did take a look at their talents I did some theorycrafting but in no way, shape or form do I claim this to be the "best" group I do claim however that the synergies in this group are so ridiculously good that you are going to feel like demigods.
Note: By now you should know that I can not tell short stories, so if you find my posts boring this is the time to get out while you can as I will go into great detail. If however you decided to stay then let me thank you in advance and I advice you to grab a drink and get some food.
The party that I use consists of Vreas, Kjartan, Kyera and Tamilin (VKKT) and the reason why is that when I just bought the game I had no clue and I was big newb. So I decided to go with the original 4 heroes and (sadly) opted for easy. I am however pretty sure this will work in normal and hard mode aswell but maybe for NM a little tweak here or there is needed. For example Kjartan grabbing Meteoric Shockwave (MS) instead of investing late game talent points in other stuff. However even on NM I am sure this will be a pretty viable if not deadly combination.
Vraes Str:7, Dex:16, Con:16, Will:5, Int:3, Kno:3 (Any further points will most likely end up in willpower) Blades:20, Hammers:3, Polearms:3, Leadership:16, Lore:6 (Any further points will now go into lore) Crushing blow 1 Stoneskin 1 Savage sweep 1 Phalanx shield 10 Burst of speed 6 (will go to atleast 9) Ferocity 3 (depending on the amount of %sp drain I will grab a few more ranks) Berserk rage 10
Invest in dex untill it reaches 16, then go for con 16 and then go for willpower. Going for a physical avoidance build that uses 1ap light blades, so I take dexterity to 16 so it gives me more offence dice and also defensive dice. I am well aware that you will eventually git hit, the goal is to keep that to a minimum and for ranged spell attacks or ranged physical attacks that do hit we need to have some hitpoints so that is the reason as to why I want 16 con aswell. From here on out you are likely to have reached level 42 so any other points will go into willpower making it so that we take less damage from ranged spell attacks that hit us and we get +%curse immunity which is a nice bonus as I don't need to use 1ap for an item but instead get to have an extra attack.
Invest in blades untill it reaches 16, then invest in leadership but don't go over 16, make sure that when you hit level 30 and 40 you have 2 skill points to invest in blades again and then go for lore. Taking blades to max is a no brainer, more offensive dice and defensive dice, then since I use rank 10 Phalanx shield and Berserk rage leadership is a no brainer aswell since those buffs have a pretty high spirit point cost to keep up. Lategame I start upping Burst of speed so then I want to increase lore to get more turns out of that aswell.
Save talent points untill Phalanx shield/Burst of speed becomes available. Take 1 rank into Burst of speed then go straight for Phalanx shield 10, then go straight for Berserk rage 10, then take 1 rank ferocity. Then depending on your %sp drain take another 1-2 ranks ferocity or start dumping talents into Burst of speed untill it reaches rank 9. Early game Vraes will be tanking, the 1 rank of Burst of speed will give me a free +1mp, meaning that I don't have to spend AP on moving meaning more attacks. As a bonus it also gives +1 dodge which is small but dodge is the bomb. After that I go straight for Phalanx shield 10, pesky ranged hits hard and while I am building towards dexterity 16 and rank 10 phalanx shield I am more vulnerable. This will mean that during the 1st episode Vraes will focus on tanking and any damage he does is icing on the cake. Once we start picking up Berserk rage upto 10 he will deal increasingly more damage. After that it kinda depends on the amount of %sp drain you have as to how many ranks of ferocity you are going to take. I took 3 seeing as I have 20% sp drain. (6% from weapon and 14% from amulet) The 20% is already overdoing it, I get so many high crits that there are some +83 sp returns so I can probabaly safely take it to rank 4-5. However I decided to go for Burst of speed rank 9 first. I want the +5mp and the added dodge and with rank 9 the 2 extra parry will be very nice aswell. With this built every +1mp means that I can use Vraes his ap on attacks. This maximizes his effiency.
Items currently worn: Weapon: Tulwar; 5accuracy, 6 parry, 1ap, 31-45 damage, +6 fire dmg, +6% sp drain Offhand: Braeysguard(shield); 9 parry, +120 max hp, +3 melee accuracy, +12 dmg, +2% crit Armor: Leather and pouldrons(light); 78 armor, -2 stealth, +2 parry, +2 dodge, +2% crit Item1: Seventh ward cloak(cloak); +6 parry, +6 dodge, +6 armor Item2: Weaver's walk(boots); +2mp, +2 dodge Item3: Heartbeat of summer(amulet); +300 max sp, +42 holy dmg, +14% sp drain
I want to replace the boots with a ring of Calib; +6 parry, +6 dodge, +6 armor but I will drop down from +5mp to +3mp. I want to replace the armor with Scaled leather breastplate(light); 90 armor, -2 stealth, +8% sp drain, +2% crit and then I give Heartbeat of summer to Tamilin while still having enough %sp drain to make sure I can spam ferocity rank 3. After losing Heartbeat of summer I will then use Torc of the feline(amulet); +9 dodge I also have the option to replace my current cloak with Righteous mantle(cloak); +3 accuracy, +3 parry, +3 dodge, +20 holy dmg
Kjartan Str:3, Dex:4, Con:10, Will:7, Int:16, Kno:9 (still alternating between con and kno) Polearms:2, Sorcery:19, Conjuring:12, Lore:2 (Sorcery to 20 then dump all in into conuring) Firebolt 4 (will most likely get upped to rank 10 now) Choking Ash 10 Pureflame shield 1 Burning blades 10 Firestorm 5 (Firestorm 5 should be enough)
Invest in intelligence upto 16 then making con and kno equal and and then alternating between the 2. Intelligence 16 because he gets spirit points and thus can go longer without resting and he needs to debuff/curse a lot, the downside of my build is that choking ash on the enemy is kinda mandatory so he uses up a lot of sp on that. He needs to have a decent amount of con because he absolutely NEEDS to be able to survive 2 attacks. And the knowledge is just get more dice to hit stuff.
Invest in conjuring upto 9, then sorcery upto 20, then back to conuring. Conjuring 9 is what I want to be able to 3x3 debuff with choking ash after that it is all about sorcery to get more offensive dice.
Early game dump all talent points into choking ash untill it has reached 10, take rank 1 firestorm when it becomes available, then go burning blades all the way upto 10, then get firestorm to 5 and then get firebolt to 10. This built focuses mostly on support and needs to constantly put choking ash down on enemies. When everything is cursed he can then throw firestorms if he can hit 2 or more targets. (Note: with this build and probably every other build aswell make sure your initial target also has been hit with Tamilin her Torrent of Steel and Kyera her Ethereal Anguish to make absolutely sure your firestorm connects and deals as much damage as possible.) However most of the times he will be around just needing to cast choking ash. His burning blades makes sure that firestorm rank 1 will deal a considerable amount of damage, however untill lategame firebolt will be mostly useless, when using it do not expect to hit or hit hard with it. Once it gains ranks and thus accuracy it will become much better. Burning blades is also one of the key buffs in this setup. Vraes is using a 1ap weapon and a lot of crit, so adding +fire dmg to that and another 6% crit is insane. The same goes for Tamilin who most of the times will be using her 1 ap throwing knives and is also critbuilt so the exact same goes for her. So the core of this groupbuild is having 2 heroes that together have a total of 14 attacks while also having self crit buffs and extra +mp talents. Kjartan is basicly only here for support and the occasional firestorm. On higher difficulties like nightmare it is probably wiser to use Kjartan purely as support and NEVER make a ranged attack with him. If I was playing on nightmare I would have dumped all points from firebolt and firestorm into meteoric shockwave and that means that I would have raised conuring to 9 and then polearms to 20 and then back to conjuring. On higher difficulties he needs to be able to parry an attack. Also it means I dont need points in knowledge and then I can go for full intelligence/constitution or intelligence/constitution/dexterity if you want to smack peoples heads with staves.
Items currently worn Weapon: Staff of Nahanna(staff); 4 accuracy, 8 parry, 2ap, +40 max hp, +280 max sp, +4 accuracy, +12 dmg Armor: Hellfire mantle(mage); 60 armor, +5 evasion, +200 max sp, +16 fire dmg Item1: Right hand of sorrow(bracers); +5 accuracy, +12 dmg Item2: Snakescale boots(boots); +1mp, +4 ranged accuracy, +8 dmg, +8 armor, +2% crit Item3: Torc of will(amulet); +140 max hp, +140 max sp, +6 armor
His items are currently matching his hybrid build, he needs +max sp to be able to keep casting, he needs +max hp because he needs to be able to take 1-2 hits. And the other part of his gear is aimed towards +dmg/fire dmg and +(ranged) accuracy.
As a sidenote an item can be bought at the start of act 3 in the Storm brothers bastion; Brimstone tome, add +2 accuracy and +16 fire dmg for 3-5 turns for all characters is a great item for this build if you don't care about spending gold. Combine it with +duration incantations or tomes and use them in big battles for maximum potential.
Kyera Str:4, Dex:3, Con:11, Will:4, Int:16, Kno:11 Hammers:20, Polearms:2, Invocation:3, Conjuring:15, Lore:6 Smiting blow 1 Myshana's tears 5 Ethereal Anguish 6 Warder's shield 10 Sacrifice 2
Int to 16, then con to 16 and then most likely other points will be dumped into str. Int because she needs a lot of sp, con because she will be tanking while Vraes is saying hello to all the ranged and if she gets hit she needs to survive.
Early game Conjuring to 6 to make sure your ethereal anguish can hit 5 targets (cross shaped aoe), then dump everything into hammers, once your Warder's shield is getting to a high rank dump more points into conjuring to make the buff last longer. I took lore 6 because it is the sweet spot where sacrifice rank 2 gives 30 sp and since it costs 30 sp to use I break even.
Talent wise I feel Kyera is mostly support regardless of her abilities, I kept her as a caster for a long time, but that means she has a tougher time ap cursing targets that are at the back of the battlefield because melee enemies will attack and kill her. At higher difficulties you NEED an offtank to hold melee units, so the goal for Kyera is to act as a parry tank (I dont care about ranged, they will be dead, cursed or greeting Vraes) and if she happens to deal damage then that will be icing on the cake. As an offtank she can stand in melee all day every day, meaning easier time to -ap curse. Her ap never goes to waste because she can sacrifice, curse, heal or attack. When attacking can act as clean up or set up. In this case I really don't care if she has a 2ap hammer or 3 ap hammer. 2ap is slightly better when it comes down to maximing ap efficiency and eventually with damage due to Kjartans Burning blades 10. Warder's shield 10 and Anguis are the bread and butter of the build. Early game Get Ethereal anguish to 6 as top priority, myshana's tears to 2-3, sacrifice rank 1, then go for warder's shield, if you notice you lack strong heals or you need higher sacrifice up those but Warder's shield upto 10 will be divine. It will make Vraes very hard to hit, it will make sure that Kyera is very hard to hit with melee attacks, ranged attacks and spell attacks will still regularly hit her which is why it is important to have Vraes go annoy the ranged (or units that can summon extra monsters) while Kyera holds down the fort with Kjartan and Tamilin. If you paid attention you noticed that I have not spend all my talents points, atm I have 6 floating... I am in dilemma as to throw them in smithing blow to make her 2ap attacks hit more often and deal more dmg so she is more reliable in melee or I can throw them in piety ward. I think both options are viable because of Kjartan's burning blade 10 her smiting blow will be a lot better and Because the biggest weakness of this group is spell attacks, all resist would reduce the spell damage taken by a decent amount.
Items worn:
Mainhand: Savage spiked mace 7 accuracy, 5 parry, 2ap, 63-106 damage Offhand: Savage shield(shield) 7 parry, +1 melee accuracy, +6 dmg Armor: Leather and pouldrons(light); 78 armor, -2 stealth, +2 parry, +2 dodge, +2% crit Item1: Seventh ward cloak(cloak); +6 parry, +6 dodge, +6 armor Item2: Weaver's walk(boots); +2mp, +2 dodge Item3: Twined gold(ring); +112 max sp, +2 parry, +2 dodge, +16 fire res
Itemwise I rather have her have another item that gives high + max sp but I would have to give up her cloak and that gives a total of 12 dice, so not an option. She needs the +mp because she has 0 from talents and she needs to keep up with Vraes and Tamilin and it help with cursing people that are far. Other items are all focused on tanking, she can stand in melee for days and she even has a chance at avoiding ranged attacks although that is not what her role is, but is not uncommon for her to take a few ranged attacks to the face every now and then.
It is also possible to build her with polearms and then go for dexterity once she reached level 42, after she has maxed Int and Con. This means even more attacks will miss here, 2 ap/3ap staves can be pretty good and that way she can deal some melee damage/tank and have a very high amount of SP, the downside is that takes a few levels before you made up in dodge what you lost by dropping your shield. (parry)
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Tamilin will soon follow
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Post by anrdaemon on Mar 21, 2016 10:38:34 GMT -5
Wow, you forsake the shield? He said "1h hammer", so I suppose, she's still wieling shield.
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Post by fallen on Mar 21, 2016 10:46:53 GMT -5
For Fyona ... Use 3ap 1 handed hammer ... Wow, you forsake the shield? He said "1h hammer", so I suppose, she's still wieling shield.[/quote] Ahh, my bad. Saw 3 AP, skimmed the rest That makes a lot of sense.
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Post by En1gma on Mar 21, 2016 10:51:07 GMT -5
It's not the IC without dual shields I miss this build, and really need to do another...
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 21, 2016 15:12:48 GMT -5
Rashar Your 1ap Vraes may not last. Cory said in another post that he coded for a min of 2ap for Vraes. If that makes it to the app stores you're gonna want a new blade. Granted, not everything coded makes it to public builds, but it's a distinct possibility.
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 21, 2016 15:23:52 GMT -5
Rashar Your 1ap Vraes may not last. Cory said in another post that he coded for a min of 2ap for Vraes. If that makes it to the app stores you're gonna want a new blade. Granted, not everything coded makes it to public builds, but it's a distinct possibility. Vraes uses a spoon cause the challenge and it HURTS more!
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 21, 2016 15:26:57 GMT -5
Rashar Your 1ap Vraes may not last. Cory said in another post that he coded for a min of 2ap for Vraes. If that makes it to the app stores you're gonna want a new blade. Granted, not everything coded makes it to public builds, but it's a distinct possibility. Vraes uses a spoon cause the challenge and it HURTS more! 'But why a spoon cousin, why not an axe or a...' 'Cause it'll hurt more, you twit' Possibly the best line of 'Robin Hood Prince of Thieves'
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Post by Rashar on Mar 21, 2016 15:30:51 GMT -5
Well, that is easy to deal with I have a 2 ap lightblade in my inventory. It would not change anything else about my Vraes built, would make +mp less of a priority so it solves the problem of my boots dilemma.
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