|
Post by crimsonking on Sept 6, 2016 7:53:03 GMT -5
The best combo is Fyona's Strickening + either spellcaster's elemental damage buff + lots of elemental damage buff items. This way you'll get a constant stream of high damage. Of course you can boost the combo with Vincent's Energy Storm, but with the above mentioned combo Lightning Spear might be stronger, having a better range and being able to hit more enemies thrice instead of twice a turn. So probably ES ist stronger against fewer, stronger enemies, LS is the better weapon of mass destruction.
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Sept 6, 2016 10:34:11 GMT -5
There is some merit to Soak builds, for sure. I hope I didn't come across as otherwise...
Against 75-80% of the enemies in the game, you should do fine, but it is that last 20-25% that will crush your hopes of surviving. I'm looking at Orcin of all types, but especially Berserks, Wraiths, Skeletons, Deathkin, Trolls, anything that casts damage like Shamans and Necromancers, any boss in the game, and anything else with 3+ AP. These mobs will simply shred through you without caring about your high armor, since they can do hundreds of damage per hit, multiple times per turn.
Even if you curse AP down to one on every mob, every encounter, enough hits will likely make it through to deal damage, and if you're up against the Skeleton Archer slaughterhouses in the CoD, you're screwed-- they can't be AP cursed and are some of the most accurate mobs in the game.
I just don't think it's viable... maybe on Easy, or maybe Normal (which is the only difficulty I play on), but even then it is just not as consistent as avoidance. Armor has such a wide range of protection due to the RNG Gods, and I wouldn't trust it.
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Sept 6, 2016 10:37:43 GMT -5
Also, with Soak builds, you will be forced to devote your healer to doing nothing more than healing all the damage you take, lowering damage output, killing efficiency, and costing a shit-ton of money if you use Potions.
Not to mention all the gray hairs and bloody nails from biting them so hard.
|
|
|
Post by wascalwywabbit on Sept 6, 2016 19:22:10 GMT -5
As an added thought, I am just not sure that there is enough armor available in the game to purely soak damage given the amount of enemy damage. I think you need at least one character that can avoid melee attacks and/or ranged combined with -AP to really minimize number of enemy attacks. I play on nightmare so enemies are less forgiving of test builds. Your experience may be different at different levels. That's kinda my point, str + con isn't super viable across the board, not without strong parry on a char and dodge on another maybe. You can raise acc, soak or ap stripping, but it's hard to raise all of them enough to not need avoidance build on at least 1-2 characters (at least past normal like En1gma said). That being said, I think your take on Vraes may well be quite viable once tweaked (I tried something similar in a quick boost in on NM thru the storerooms once w/o deaths, though I didn't hit the Krete outside in that test), if less efficient maybe than Kincaid. ps For those who don't know yet - Soak so far in game is primarily gear, follow by active -dmg cursing, then passive talents like PfS, RF/PW and at the bottom (besides the hp boost of con) toughness and will power's res.
|
|
|
Post by achilles73 on Dec 12, 2016 12:47:59 GMT -5
Dodge in this game reigns supreme. When you are up against enemies that can two-shot any character in the game, no amount of soak is going to keep you alive, save by the grace of the Shield Bearer Cortias. Most games out there, pure soak is viable, but this is not most games. Avoidance is bar none the best way to keep yourself alive. Hmmm, so Vraes is not the best tank then? It seems like most party combos I have seen has Vraes in them. Is it because he is an original character?
|
|
|
Post by achilles73 on Dec 12, 2016 12:51:53 GMT -5
As an added thought, I am just not sure that there is enough armor available in the game to purely soak damage given the amount of enemy damage. I think you need at least one character that can avoid melee attacks and/or ranged combined with -AP to really minimize number of enemy attacks. I play on nightmare so enemies are less forgiving of test builds. Your experience may be different at different levels. That's kinda my point, str + con isn't super viable across the board, not without strong parry on a char and dodge on another maybe. You can raise acc, soak or ap stripping, but it's hard to raise all of them enough to not need avoidance build on at least 1-2 characters (at least past normal like En1gma said). That being said, I think your take on Vraes may well be quite viable once tweaked (I tried something similar in a quick boost in on NM thru the storerooms once w/o deaths, though I didn't hit the Krete outside in that test), if less efficient maybe than Kincaid. ps For those who don't know yet - Soak so far in game is primarily gear, follow by active -dmg cursing, then passive talents like PfS, RF/PW and at the bottom (besides the hp boost of con) toughness and will power's res. How would an avoidance build Vraes be constructed? I am very reluctant to take a duelist as a main tank, because I tend to prefer traditional role-playing grouping...
|
|
|
Post by fallen on Dec 12, 2016 13:04:15 GMT -5
achilles73 - shield + Phalanax Shield Talent, Stone Skin + good armor, lots of Natural Mastery talent.
|
|
|
Post by achilles73 on Dec 12, 2016 14:03:30 GMT -5
achilles73 - shield + Phalanax Shield Talent, Stone Skin + good armor, lots of Natural Mastery talent. Thanks. Still deciding between running him or Kincaid...
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Dec 12, 2016 14:17:56 GMT -5
Vraes and Kincaid are both stellar tanks in their own right.
Vraes is easily the most Hardy character in the game, not counting full tank Consecrated Defense/Shield of Cortias/Righteous Fervor Fyona. That's just crazy. He is the only character who gets a chance to auto block ranged attacks, and boats the game's only base stat boosting talent in Natural Mastery. -- That being said, he will not be able to deal the same amount of damage as Kincaid, especially if he wants to keep his defense.
Kincaid is capable of dealing copious amounts of damage with little effort. He can use Throwing Knives to increase his range and boasts arguably the game's best self buff with Cunning Footwork. He is able to use stealth gear to boost evasion, and relies on Dodge to avoid damage altogether, where Vraes relies on armor, Parry, and soak to see him through.
It's tough to decide, but I always enjoy Kincaid. I love big V, don't get me wrong, but where Kincaid shines is in his synergy. He is able to fill *many* roles on the battlefield, where Vraes can do maybe 4. If you haven't played a game using Kincaid with Throwing Knives and a group centered around boosting elemental damage then you haven't experienced true power.
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Dec 12, 2016 14:19:34 GMT -5
Avoidance Vraes I would go Burst of Speed/Phalanx/Mastery, and give him the best dodge gear you can find.
|
|
|
Post by achilles73 on Dec 12, 2016 14:36:22 GMT -5
Vraes and Kincaid are both stellar tanks in their own right. Vraes is easily the most Hardy character in the game, not counting full tank Consecrated Defense/Shield of Cortias/Righteous Fervor Fyona. That's just crazy. He is the only character who gets a chance to auto block ranged attacks, and boats the game's only base stat boosting talent in Natural Mastery. -- That being said, he will not be able to deal the same amount of damage as Kincaid, especially if he wants to keep his defense. Kincaid is capable of dealing copious amounts of damage with little effort. He can use Throwing Knives to increase his range and boasts arguably the game's best self buff with Cunning Footwork. He is able to use stealth gear to boost evasion, and relies on Dodge to avoid damage altogether, where Vraes relies on armor, Parry, and soak to see him through. It's tough to decide, but I always enjoy Kincaid. I love big V, don't get me wrong, but where Kincaid shines is in his synergy. He is able to fill *many* roles on the battlefield, where Vraes can do maybe 4. If you haven't played a game using Kincaid with Throwing Knives and a group centered around boosting elemental damage then you haven't experienced true power. Thanks. Basically, I am trying to find a easy/power mode for the first run through, so I can understand the game best. (I've only played up to level 7-8 on my characters and about to re-start.) So Sure Parry on Kincaid looked very stress-free. Two questions: 1. Is there a good thread on Kincaid builds? 2. What other members would be most cohesive with Kincaid? I am thinking Selen, because I want my "lead" stealth character to have decent defense, and she seems much better in this respect than the other alternative. But I don't know about the other two slots - the mage and the healer slots.
|
|
|
Post by crimsonking on Dec 12, 2016 15:05:44 GMT -5
You can actually lead with Kincaid and win stealth rolls, so Selen is far better suited to go along Vraes when it comes to Stealth.
As for Kincaid, going mainly DEX and SP 7/CF 10 seems to be part of almost every high difficulty build. The rest can vary depending on what you do with the other party members. It is very important to understand that you don't need to create character builds but party builds.
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Dec 12, 2016 15:12:05 GMT -5
It is very important to understand that you don't need to create character builds but party builds. This is absolutely key. By themselves they are strong, but together they will be able to move mountains.
|
|
|
Post by achilles73 on Dec 12, 2016 15:15:01 GMT -5
You can actually lead with Kincaid and win stealth rolls, so Selen is far better suited to go along Vraes when it comes to Stealth. As for Kincaid, going mainly DEX and SP 7/CF 10 seems to be part of almost every high difficulty build. The rest can vary depending on what you do with the other party members. It is very important to understand that you don't need to create character builds but party builds. Got it. So Tam is better to go with Kincaid then? It appears that most party combos straight-up prefer Selen though - which leads me to think that she is an outright superior character...
|
|
matrim
Star Hero
[ Patreon ]
Posts: 708
|
Post by matrim on Dec 12, 2016 15:21:16 GMT -5
It depends on difficulty and goals. Kjartan built with Choking Ash makes the beginning of the game a breeze. He ups the damage of everyone else by a ridiculous amount and lets them virtually ignore accuracy. CA starts to fall off at about end episode 3 (it's still very strong but because it's damage increase is linear it is adding 20ish damage on to the 50 you're doing at that point as opposed to the beginning where it is adding 20 damage onto the 5 damage you are doing). Vincent can bring great AoE damage or good cursing with SP free sword attacks. At the beginning he is strong if built with lightning spear but sword takes a while to flesh out. Both mages are similar if built for magic damage in my opinion, with Kjartan being cheaper, safer, single target and Vincent being more damaging, risky, AoE damage. With proper support a sword Vincent is very terrifying to behold, cursing enemies with high level curses and following up with devastating sword strokes that drain all the SP just used back.
Kyera is a good healer. She has better healing, more SP, and better initial cursing than Fyona. Built for maces, she can basically match Fyona in effectiveness (a little behind if you develop Fyona's buff attack), she does respectable SPless damage. Built for magic damage takes a little bit to come into its own but is very effective, especially given the amount of dangerous enemies in this game that are weak to holy damage. Her Ethereal Anguish is one of the best curses in the game, it takes all the fight out of almost everything you will encounter. Fyona is more late game than Kyera. At the start she has the ability to equip 2h hammers which are far more effective against beetles and giant rats. Her real value is not apparent until you develop Strickening. With proper elemental damage builds, Strickening increases damage by a stupid amount. At level 10 power with about 20ish elemental damage across the board you will see 160-220 damage regularly, with 350 damage crits (1 AP weapons). It is IMO, the best curse in the game. It's presence in Fyona's arsenal basically ensures that I don't even consider benching her for Kyera.
The others you have looked at in depth. Summary (this is subjective understand, there are many ways to build every character, this is how I like to build them) Vraes - more damage, more HP, dex based Vraes is very dodgy, still good damage Kincaid - more versatile (ranged attack, group buff), less damage, guaranteed block of melee attacks *my choice*
Kjartan - better early game, more crits make late game really fun, higher SP usage Vincent - late game presence, able to build curse and still do damage, way more risky as you have to be closer to mobs *my choice*
Kyera - more SP, better heals, EA takes all the fight out of everything, option for SP battery build Fyona - strickening *my choice*
Tamilin - less defense, 1 AP range option, great cursing with ToS, extreme damage *my choice* Selen - can build as tank, versatile damage (dual wield or bow and sword), great cursing with PS or PB, extreme damage (but no 1 AP, AoE option)
|
|