Tamilin needs a rework

[fallen]

Dec 4, 2014 12:47:53 GMT -5 mrsarfa said:

I think I would actually prefer replacing Torrent of Steel with something else. Let's face it, Tami is not built for melee, so why not just go all-in on her ranged talents? Torrent of Steel made sense before Selen became available, but now that Selen is here to stay, nobody is going to choose to build a melee Tamilin.

Lol, ... apply the same razor to Selen's Pinning shot? Tamilin is here to stay, no one wants a ranged Selen

(please don't kill me, I am JOKING)

[En1gma]

How dare you! Lol Pinning Shot Selen is a goddess!

[fallen]

mrsarfa said it.

[En1gma]

How else am I supposed to have an all-ap curse party?! Speaking of, has anyone done this yet?

[mrsarfa]

fallen - hey, now. Don't put words in my mouth. Trying to get me into trouble?

I don't think that Tami's Torrent and Selen's Pinning are in comparable situations at all. Just because I think Torrent should be replaced doesn't mean that Pinning should. Here's why: In order for Tami to become a viable melee character, she would need a whole slew of upgrades, besides just Torrent: +MP so she can close range faster without losing out on attacks, +Parry and/or armor to make her less squishy, etc. If you give her those upgrades, though, then you're just turning her into another Selen. She needs something else. That's why I suggested foregoing melee altogether and focusing on ranged. She gets improved and the two stealth characters remain distinct.

[fallen]

Dec 4, 2014 13:18:36 GMT -5 mrsarfa said:

fallen - hey, now. Don't put words in my mouth. Trying to get me into trouble?

Where else on the internets can you have this much fun with your game dev?

[mrsarfa]

Dec 4, 2014 13:31:12 GMT -5 fallen said:

Where else on the internets can you have this much fun with your game dev?

Only TB, baby! I love this forum! 

[boltsnblades]

What if Torrent of Steel was changed to a -armor and -dodge cursing attack? This could allow Tamilin to set up other characters to hit more often, or allow her set herself up if the enemy gets in to close.

[John Robinson]

What about swapping Ranged Onslaught from Required level 18 to level 12, and Silent Stalker from Required level 12 to 18?

Ranged Onslaught at level 12 would bring her AoE into play sooner, hitting multiple targets earlier in her development cycle seems more natural to me.

Silent Stalker is nearly a guaranteed Critical Hit and kill because it is a 8 turn curse attack this seems like a pretty advanced talent to have at a later stage i.e. level 18, she could fire a couple into hard targets then hit them again if they are in a group that Ranged Onslaught is covering.

mrsarfa Yes I was very surprised about my conclusions on Tamilin, but you won't find me playing her in any of my teams, it's been so long that I have used her I'm pretty lost on how to make a go of it again and Torrent of Steel just bleeds off Talent points better spent elsewhere.
Excellent Poll thanks for opening a discussion that is long overdue  
 

[En1gma]

Completely agree with John Robinson here- making AoE available much sooner would make her much more usable for me...

[crimsonking]

Ranged Onslaught 1 (not 10, 1 is really enough) + Deadly Intuition 10 + Holy Strickening 10 + Thundering Blades 10 + more different elemental damage charms + 2AP Bow -> massive ranged multi target damage at low SP cost. Of course, I could use Pinning Shot for that, but why should I bother with AP debuffs when I can simply kill the enemy? Those that survive Tamilins and Kincaids buffed multi elemental multi target attacks I can still Flash Freeze.

On the other hand I think that Pinning Shot is just to cheap in SP. On groups that focus less on dealing as much damage as they can as fast as possible it is the far better talent. When I compare it to what Aimed Shot and Ranged Onslaught are capable and what they cost at low levels, I'd take Pinning Shot all the time. A high level Ranged Onslaught might hit lots of targets, but does so at extremely high cost and most of the time much of the targeted area will be empty, but you still have to pay for it. But if it where possible to use a Talent at lower level at will, that would be different...

Another point on Tam for me is Silent Stalker. High crit propability means you will probably try to kill one or even several emenies on turn 1. The debuff tagged to the talent doesn't do it any good. Selen's stealth crit talent is much more focused.

So, if I were to rework anything, I'd slightly raise the SP cost on Pinning Shot and drop the accuracy debuff for extra damage on Silent Stalker.

[CdrPlatypus]

I 2nd John Robinson 's idea to switch the levels of ranged onslaught and silent stalker. He makes a good case

[En1gma]

Lol I hope they don't raise the cost of PS again! It was bad enough the last time it was balanced

I do find it odd that Selen is able to hit multiple targets from the start, but Tamilin has to wait until 18. If SS and RO were switched, that would make so much sense...

[slayernz]

We need to have some player vs player action ... it'd be great to have an "arena" mode, where you can pit your current players against AI of the same level as you (but tuned according to the devs). Of course the kills wouldn't count against your game score - in either direction. It'd just be fun to try your luck against an optimized Selen or Tami or ...


And yeah, I agree with John Robinson RO and SS should be switched! That'd be awesome.

[mrsarfa]

Thanks again, all, for the awesome discussion. I wanted to tie things up a little before this thread dies, so I went through each post and determined if the author was in favor of some kind of change or not, even if it was only to express support for John Robinson's idea to switch the level requirements of Silent Stalker and Ranged Onslaught. I only took outright statements of support as being in favor; comments that didn't come out and say specifically that they liked the idea of a change, I counted as a "no" vote. I was counting users and not posts, so the number of times that a user posted was irrelevant. I did not count fallen or Cory Trese, since they aren't just any players. If I had counted them, they would both be in the "no" column, as they both played it cagey and did not express outright support for a change. 

Here are the results:

11 users commented in the thread and, of those, 8 were in favor of some kind of a change and 3 were not.

I've made my opinion clear already in this thread, so I won't go into it again now, but I hope this discussion triggered some ideas in the mad scientist-like brains of our beloved TB.
And if not, I'll just keep using Selen.