Tamilin needs a rework

[anrdaemon]

Dec 3, 2014 13:04:19 GMT -5 CdrPlatypus said:

Tam does one thing really well. Ranged Physical dmg.

I'll put it even simpler. She's killing. There can't be any two opinions on this matter.
She draw the bowstring and someone die.

[anrdaemon]

Dec 4, 2014 5:27:01 GMT -5 matrim said:

Oh just thought of another thing! Give her an attack that lets her push mobs back spaces so she can fill the unique team role of setting up AoE's or saving squishy (Kjartan, I am looking at you -.-) characters. Maybe put it a couple levels into aimed shot or something.

Now, that sounds interesting.

[anrdaemon]

Dec 4, 2014 10:48:41 GMT -5 mrsarfa said:

Cory Trese compared her to KJ, saying that KJ is similarly focused on ranged damage.

Kjartan sucks at damage. Tamilin do more damage with flapping eyelashes. Assuming the target was appropriately debuffed.

[Cory Trese]

Dec 13, 2014 6:27:04 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

Dec 4, 2014 10:48:41 GMT -5 mrsarfa said:

Cory Trese compared her to KJ, saying that KJ is similarly focused on ranged damage.

Kjartan sucks at damage. Tamilin do more damage with flapping eyelashes. Assuming the target was appropriately debuffed.

I love that we have multiple groups of players arguing polar opposites of each other. Shows all the work that went into differentiated carry and support roles really paid off big time.

Exciting stuff to see one camp saying "Kj is the king of DPS" and the other side saying "Kj is pure support, not DPS"

[CdrPlatypus]

KJ is great for dps on 3 fronts. Chocking ash is a great Damage increase by stripping armour and making you more likely to hit the target, BB is the only group crit buff, and Immolation or Firestorm + BB can do serious damage. Firebolt is nice too, but tam out does him in cost effective single target damage

[anrdaemon]

I just thought about another possible replacement for steel torrent.
A ranged cursing attack with low damage, that strips target AP for a short time.
Weapon based range.
Weapon based AP cost.
SP cost somewhere equal to Ethereal Anguish.
Rank 1-3: -1 AP for one turn. Moderate SP cost.
Rank 4-6: -2 AP for one turn. Increased SP cost.
Rank 7-9: -2 AP for two turns. High SP cost.
Rank 10 - here I'm not sure. Further increasing duration or power of the curse seems too unbalanced. Directional AoE?

As you can predict, the expected effect is sacrificing damage to gain tactical advantage, when absolutely necessary.

[CdrPlatypus]

If a -ap were to be stuck on steel torrent I think it should remain single target melee to keep a solid differentiation between Selen and Tam. Someone gets too close to tam and she shanks them then backs up for a shot or runs around a corner to safety.

[slayernz]

Nice. I like your logic with Tam. She's still a range specialist, but when she does the stabby stabby, it's to benefit her range

Even better, instead of doing a -1AP ... how about -1 or -2 Movement?!?

That means the enemy would not be able to keep up after Tam does her ToS!

[anrdaemon]

-MP wouldn't stop 3x200 swings.
I agree about the range, but it shouldn't be a melee range. 2-3 sounds good. Imagine a blunt arrow that momentarily stuns the opponent.

[slayernz]

haha if Tami was to fire an arrow, it'd be to hurt something badly and make it bleed ... stunning it would be the last thing on her mind

[fallingleaf]

I'm reading this thread with interest. I haven't used Tami since I bought Selen. I'm thinking adding a +1 range bonus (or even +2 at higher levels) to Aimed Shot might be a game changer. It still doesn't address the issue that she is not very versatile, but it gives her a unique talent to set her apart from Selen. Could be balanced with a reduction in the accuracy and/or damage bonus for Aimed Shot.

[mataeus]

Jan 17, 2015 0:51:30 GMT -5 fallingleaf said:

I'm reading this thread with interest. I haven't used Tami since I bought Selen. I'm thinking adding a +1 range bonus (or even +2 at higher levels) to Aimed Shot might be a game changer. It still doesn't address the issue that she is not very versatile, but it gives her a unique talent to set her apart from Selen. Could be balanced with a reduction in the accuracy and/or damage bonus for Aimed Shot.

Totally support the +1 range at higher levels of aimed shot - or maybe unlock it at higher levels of the bow skill.

Anyway, I voted the last option. Mainly because I don't have any optional characters, BUT I love having a ranged specialist in the party. I always lead with her which usually gives me the combat initiative, meaning I can light up the room in front and retreat a few steps back througg the door / around the corner, and debuff with KJ and then thrash the shit out of the enemies as they begin filtering towards my party.

At the end of Episode 1 in hard mode, leading to the throne room of Red Hill, Tam was getting critical hits of 170-200 with buffs and various pieces of buffing armour and accessories. That's a 1-shot on many enemies right there. By the time Vraes closed in on the Baron, he only needed one hit to kill him, as I'd taken him down over the last turn with ranged combat.

You can't beat that kill from afar for me

[fallen]

mataeus - the range of your bow attacks is always going to be tied to the bow you are using.

When she get's into 1-shot mode and super-triple-crits ... you know you can't beat Tami!

[TeeWee]

Apologies for necro, but I've been away for some time.

Tamilin is currently one sided, in that there seems to be only three significant options: Aimed Shot vs Ranged Onslaught vs Silent Stalker, where the first option seems very suboptimal compared to the other two.

All decisions regarding the Tamilin-build are centered on balancing the need of Blacknight vs DI, and then pumping the preferred offensive ability when available (RangedO vs SilentS). There are no other options really.

I think it's right to focus on Torrent of Steel. As her only melee talent, it brings nothing special: +ACC and +DMG, and neither is spectacular. Compare this to Selen's Pinning shot, which gives AoE as well as -AP, both are great benefits to any team and good enough to make Selen into an archer primarily and foregoing most of her melee abilities completely.

To make something unique for Tamilin, you'd have to change Torrent into something that is unique and something that will compete for talent points from her optimal SilentStalker/RangedO builds. The talent must therefore be strong and tie into her archer role. I have some ideas, some of which are already mentioned earlier:

1. a (ranged) -MP curse. Not as good as -AP, but then, you might add more -MP than you would -AP. The idea is to make a stun-attack from range, preventing effective pursuit and allowing your front line to retreat.
   
2. a melee-only defensive retaliation strike that activates when taking melee damage, with a guaranteed hit maybe. Something that inflicts increased Crit% (weak spot from up close) or inflicts a curse (from up close, I can destroy your armour/weapon hand or something)
3. a knock-back effect that, if there is space behind the target, knocks the target back a space or two, creating a very different type of mechanic, of which the true value should vary greatly depending on what the party makeup is
4. a ranged buffing attack which buffs heroes who are standing next to the target

Of these, I think I like -MP best. Especially if you have massive -MP, like -2MP already at  about level 5, with -4MP at level 10: -2MP is far less crippling than -2AP for the target and it would turn Tamilin into an incredible support machine for fluid warriors in a running battle, which is unique to her. 

[Cory Trese]

Funny necro. Since this thread was put to bed we've updated several of Tamilin's talents.