High End Juggernaut?

[En1gma]

I'll need to see how you're building him... If you post your team with skills/atts/talents then I can help pinpoint what could be tweaked.

[Cory Trese]

Thanks En1gma ... advice from an expert is always best.

[En1gma]

I'm not an expert, though I did sleep on a Temperpedic last night

Always willing to help-- my one true calling in life.

[phaze]

The gist was a Berserker Vraes using dex-based weapons for added defense die and overall opting for defensive equipment mixed with a touch of spirit drain to support his buff usage. Phalanx was at 8 I recall with a Berserk of 3 supplemented with level 9 Warder's Shield, a smattering of Pure Flame and aided by Meteoric Shockwave and Silent Stalker for lingering tough enemies. Eq, mostly the best defensive gear available (Footsteps of Snow, Talisman of the Smith, and an armor with 30 armor, +3 Dodge, +HP, and +6 resistance). Armor was in the 70s, or lower with Berserk Rage. HP pool was over 600. A pretty tight build. I wish I had left Berserk Rage at 2 and bumped PS at the last level, but that is a minor tweak.

At the beginning of Episode 2, having cleared through the Darkmoss and starting the Underforge to earn enough gold to buy the best heavy armor at Granthorn.

Attributes, high con plus dex up to 7 and 1 intelligence. Max swords and building leadership for longer Phalanx and Berserk. Overall, he can tank well reasonably...in streaks. The UF with its masses of ranged damage are illustrative of how die rolls work with Phalanx. At 44% (PS plus shield bonus), the number of blocks due to Phalanx Shield was very disappointing, leaving him open to more damage than expected. A better armor would be great.

My major issues are that dice are random Tanking goes well until he rolls poorly and gets melee hits to the face plus a barrage of ranged damage. Current armor and HP are OK but need improvement. Even at this point, I feel Vraes slowing down offensively compared to Kincaid. Kincaid explodes in the later episodes due to area attacks stacked with critical hits. Outside of Juggernaut, Vraes is more of a plodding character.

Overall the plan is to supplement talents (after PS is maxed) with a mixture of BoS, Mastery, and Stone Skin to increase livability while slowly leveling Berserk Rage and picking one attack talent (likely Crushing Blow or Ferocity depending on SP gear). I put one point into Savage Sweep as +5 acc is a sweet deal against giant rats/deathkin, etc.

Rest of party is Kyera/Tamilin/Kjartan with Kyera as off tank and EA as needed. Choking Ash and buff support from Kjartan, and Tamilin with Torrent of Steel as a -AP and excellent damage dealer.

Yes, Vraes is easy to play in that he is straight forward but I haven't made him shine to my liking yet.

[fallen]

phaze - have you tried to play him not using Light Blades? I would say (especially considering the new Strength rules) that is the weakest possible Vraes you could play.

[phaze]

I pushed light blades for added Dodge to push the defensive dice with berserk rage. The chance to push berserk rage higher yields great damage output for all attacks, allowing better sp recovery with drain.

Additionally, I wanted to explore 1 ap blades as a mode. Yes, it is nonstandard. I also wanted to push dodge to see if Vraes can further reduce incoming ranged damage. The auto from PS just isn't enough.

The new strength changes were not out when I started the character ? The new strength rules are making me consider 2 ap spears. And the better weapon stats may compensate.

Vraes does ok overall, but I haven't found a version that really sells him for me.

Time to keep plugging away. Some new equipment tweaks may help.

[fallen]

phaze - Ok, I just wanted to be sure you had tried other versions outside of Light Blades

[wascalwywabbit]

I found going light blades BR Vraes gets very good dodge stacks with BoS and WS. With PS he basically gets 2 chances to dodge, so even 1 point in PS is worth it if you don't mind the damage dive for the extra D.

My advice: don't worry about added points in phalanx (since it is already high especially) until BoS gives +3mp or even +5 because that and dex (If con is max for the hp) will raise your dodge dice into a more survivable range, plus he can run down archers much faster to get the kill. The other option is to go ssk and just raise hp to take the hits, raising PfS and maybe piety ward with MT.

SS, EA and MS all with their -acc stacks well with +dodge/dex as well. Getting there from 7 dex and minimal to no BoS may take awhile tho. Raising them together gives as many as 5-6 dice swing per level in your favor if the curses are applied in battle with the buffs.

Go int after dex if you're going ferocity unless you can get enough sp drain to have ferocity use your goto without the added int. Go str instead if get good drain gear including swords/spears. Stack BB with BR for extra crits if staying dex.

For juggernaut probably have banishment, FS and RO/ToS ready to drop enemies en masse into low hp. That's theory cause haven't played juggernaut yet.

[CdrPlatypus]

Cory Trese the best gplay group had kincaid in it for NMI. Kincaid has the easiest build IMO because cunning footwork -> 10 is one talent that gives you everything you want without having to compromise. Whereas if we look at Vraes crit boosting talent you have to be willing to reduce defense in order to boost crit.

At cunning foot work 10 + storm of steel one + dual wield you have a character with high base dmg, high acc, high dodge, melee aoe and a self buffed crit of 16%

[phaze]

Adding to Gundamoth's comment, I would add the Sure Parry adds a huge degree of stability into battles in that you mitigate bad dice rolls for melee attacks.

Totally agree with wascalwyrabbit. That is essentially my current plan. There are definitely some growth pains for a Berserker Rage Vraes. Stacking Dodge, I did find he was able to dodge ranged attacks in addition to blocking with Phalanx, at least at that point in the game. But movement points were not a priority as running into enemy packs is a recipe for death unless I can guarantee his survivability first in both melee and ranged. Point for point, maxing Phalanx first gives better outcomes than BoS. BoS is planned for after phalanx to keep increasing defensive dice and add Dodge. I was playing by ear to test how sound Vraes is in different areas. In some areas, I can glimpse the character he can be, but it takes a lot of talent points to get him there with very strong coordination from the team.

I think there is just a lot of transition points for Vraes to contend with.

[Cory Trese]

Jan 23, 2016 5:37:21 GMT -5 CdrPlatypus said:

Cory Trese the best gplay group had kincaid in it for NMI. Kincaid has the easiest build IMO because cunning footwork -> 10 is one talent that gives you everything you want without having to compromise. Whereas if we look at Vraes crit boosting talent you have to be willing to reduce defense in order to boost crit.

At cunning foot work 10 + storm of steel one + dual wield you have a character with high base dmg, high acc, high dodge, melee aoe and a self buffed crit of 16%

I'm looking at the top 1000 groups, not just #1 -- but I do concede that Kincaid makes several appearances in the top 10 builds.

[En1gma]

If BR only took away Parry and not Armor, instead reducing Accuracy, I could see it being balanced a bit better. It is so hard to justify losing BOTH Armor and Parry, for a better chance at a crit...

Thinking about Vraes actually using it, going crazy wouldn't reduce the effectiveness of his armor, just how well he would use his weapons to defend himself...

I don't know, I don't see all the numbers behind the scenes, but I agree that his damage potential really begins to drop away once he gets farther. When you have to sacrifice SO much of his defense against mobs who can still do 1/3 to 1/4 of his life total in a single swing, BR becomes much more dangerous than just slugging it out with his Melee talents.

[fallen]

Jan 18, 2016 13:01:39 GMT -5 fallen said:

Are you using it with Vraes?

In my test group, big V just got level 7.

I just killed two E4 monsters using a 2 AP weapon, and ended up with 7 AP and 5 MP ... I need more targets!

With the 5 free MP, I was able to kill another monster that turn. He's everywhere, killing most everything. When it comes to dealing huge damage to a single target, I'm relying on Vraes.

[En1gma]

As for phaze-- I agree that as of now, after the adjustments to STR, a DEX based V is the least effective.

I would max out PS before anything else. With the best shield form the Ember base camps, he can push his Auto-block to 60%, which is better than a straight coin flip. Yes, he will still take some hits, but it should knock his incoming damage totals down to manageable levels. Taking PS will inevitably leave him dealing far less damage than a comparable 2H build (take a look at one of the 4AP spears around the CoD!)

The best way with a PS build to increase damage output is FEROCITY. Unless you're using a DEX based build, in which case I would recommend Crushing Blow for SP efficiency. Without Fyona to back him up, BR may not bethe best way to go here. She cannot tank on her own, and to take away V's defenses seems like a mistake. So long as Kyera has Sacrifice 2, you can respec V's BR points into FEROCITY and have a tank who can deal massive amounts of damage, and have Kyera constantly topping him off so he can keep going. Max out PS, toss a few into NM for even more melee dice (alternatively for into BoS for the dodge dice, or even Stone Skin for added durability), and invest in at least FEROCITY 4.

Depending on Tamilin/KJ's builds (damage or support?) you may just need a tank who can still deal good amounts of damage and act as more of a finisher. In this case, you could forgo FEROCITY and invest them instead into Juggernaut. Assuming KJ/Tam/Kyera have some sort of AoE damage capabilities, Vraes could do very well as a mass grave filler: have the group knock a crowd down to under 50-75 health, then have Vraes rampage across the battlefield, clear the board and reset the battle lines for another assault.

Hope any of this helps =)

[CdrPlatypus]

I'm trying out a 2 hand build for vraes now. Thinking he's going to go juggernaut instead of ferocity. Let's see if I can keep him alive that long. I did get lucky and loot a 2 handed sword on the way to osk. This made the battle at the osk gates the fastest I can remember. Sliced through the boss shamans hp tank like butter.