High End Juggernaut?

[fallen]

Are you using it with Vraes?

In my test group, big V just got level 7.

I just killed two E4 monsters using a 2 AP weapon, and ended up with 7 AP and 5 MP ... I need more targets!

[En1gma]

Gah, never gotten that far with Vraes, only Kincaid... It's on my list though.

[CdrPlatypus]

It's on my list to try. My new test group OG 3.5 is running Redhill right now about to hit Groth. Running phalanx and ferocity at the moment, but plan to branch to juggernaut.

[wascalwywabbit]

Are you gonna keep ferocity for the heavies or respec for max juggernaut maybe with small BR crits boost?

[CdrPlatypus]

Keep. I'm running this group for score as well as test, so no respec for me

[anrdaemon]

Sorry, don't have that much SP to use it. I'm also leaning towards ditching Ferocity as well.
Just. Too. Costly.

[Cory Trese]

Jan 19, 2016 17:21:04 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

Sorry, don't have that much SP to use it. I'm also leaning towards ditching Ferocity as well.
Just. Too. Costly.

Each player's style is unique. The cost definitely lines up in the player's advantage mathematically, but we don't play games with math ... we play them with perception and personal preference. Players seem think that's one of the advantages of the HoS design -- many ways to play!

[anrdaemon]

I'm not arguing, I'm posting my opinion as requested. I did use Juggernaut in my first build, got it to 5, then dropped for Ferocity.

[wascalwywabbit]

I'd love to try it out more but honestly I'm still learning early strategy and tactics and haven't begun level 18+ builds yet.

Throw in a higher boost in and I'll go there but right now I'm all episode 1 and early 2, possibly for months yet due to time constraints and so many options to pursue in game.

PS The main thing I worry about going there is whether getting things down to one hit kill range would really be better than just killing them for anything other than the more massive battles. May be worth doing more multiple pulls on purpose with purpose built banishment, RO and FS.

As it stands right now I feel Vraes has somewhat better D, no-one can tank like Vraes, and basic attack dmg, but Kincaid has better empowered attacks lunge being slightly superior to Ssw and that's his worst empowered attack imo including real AoE and cursing as well as better team synergy for most uses. CB and ferocity are both massive but CB really requires -parry cursed targets or NM pairing with other weapon skills due to low acc and ferocity needs effective sacrifice or sp drain gear % equal to 2-3x the points of ferocity or split the difference s.

Juggernaut may be Vraes saving grace for both AoE and efficiency of offense, but it will definitely require a team effort, and the final say in practice I just don't know yet.

[Cory Trese]

We might consider adding a second boost in point when EP4 is finished and we've implemented some of the QoL features we've got on the schedule.

[phaze]

Any tips on using a high level Vraes? Or getting there to that point? I want to like him but definitely struggle to use him.

I'm leveling a Berserk character but definitely am struggling to balance the use against the enemy level curve. Unlike Sure Parry, even massive defense dice pools are no guarantee against the RNG, and I find massive swings in his HP pool. The damage output is great, but even a level 3 berserk talent paired with high level Phalanx leaves Vraes very exposed at times even with max defense equipment and supporting talents. The other variant I'm trying is a Juggernaut. However, even at a level 4 talent, I find the random bonuses at the end very frustrating given the SP cost. It takes A LOT of set-up to use. Maybe a higher level would be satisfactory? Just push on through to level 7?

[En1gma]

Hey phaze...

I would pick a defensive talent and completely max it out. Take Phalanx for example. This gives you a fantastic amount of Parry dice, and 50+% auto block for incoming ranged. Once you have your base, you can pick another talent or two to focus on next. Phalanx works particularly well with Berserk Rage, as the Parry/armor lost is offset by the bonuses granted by PS. Once you have BR up to where you're comfortable, you can pick an attack talent, start on another defensive, etc...

With V especially, you really need to begin with the end in mind. How do you envision him fighting in the CoD and beyond? Once you have the answer to this, you can figure out how to get them there.

[Cory Trese]

Great advice En1gma ... I think the right answer to to imagine how he'll fight in the end game and build towards that.

[phaze]

Yes...doing all that and more, as much as the game allows stacking of dice to the advantage. But even despite that, Vraes has been a real struggle to play effectively. Especially aiming for ironman. After two respects in episode 2, I haven't found a satisfactory solution to Vraes. Out of all the characters, this one eludes me.

[Cory Trese]

Jan 22, 2016 19:16:27 GMT -5 phaze said:

Yes...doing all that and more, as much as the game allows stacking of dice to the advantage. But even despite that, Vraes has been a real struggle to play effectively. Especially aiming for ironman. After two respects in episode 2, I haven't found a satisfactory solution to Vraes. Out of all the characters, this one eludes me.

Very interesting. The feedback we hear most from Ironman players is that Vraes is the easiest.