Vraes's Talent Table of Terror

[John Robinson]

Vraes

When playing HOS, I sometimes want to remember what effect increasing a talent will do without waiting for a leveling campsite.
While attacking opponents, I wonder, why didn't that work as well as I expected? Should I increase my Intelligence attribute to support a higher level of talents, Or should I raise my Strength attribute, and Spear skill to be more effective? Or increase my rippling muscles with more points in Constitution? By the way if the Outlander wants to become an expert at wielding 2 knives your accuracy is determined by the Dexterity attribute. For melee weapons such as spears, and blades your Strength attribute is used.

Players' Guides: Heroes and Monsters (Tables) provides additional information you may find useful on a variety of topics.

Quick Cross Reference; Click on character's name to move back and forth between their Talent Tables.

Vraes's Talent Table of Terror
Kjartan's Talent Table of Flame and Fortune
Kyrea's Talent Table of Tears and Retribution
Tamlin's Talent Table of Hide and Peek
Selen's Talent Table of Dancing Daggers and Doom
Vincent's Talent Table of Shock Therapy
Fyona's Talent Table Hammer of the Gods
Kincaid's Talent Table of Crimson Steel


Start Up Table provides a side by side comparison of the Attributes and Skills each character has at the beginning of the game.

Leveling Table Check here if you would like to see how many XP you need to Level and the points on attributes, skill, and talents you can spend. 

Curse attack display:  Was the attack successful? Thanks to wascalwywabbit and fallen now we know.


Note: When a W appears in the AP/SP column that represents the AP required to use the equipped weapon.

Row 1 displays the automatic increase to total Hit points and Spell points when Vraes  reaches the next higher level.
Row 2 displays the increase in HP Vraes gets when increasing Constitution attribute +1.
Row 3 displays the increase in SP Vraes gets when increasing Intelligence attribute +1
Row 4 displays the number of HP  Vraes starts the game with
Row 5 displays the number of SP Vraes starts the game with

Strength Damage Bonus: Does not apply when Dual Wielding.

Vraes	Outlander
HP/SP +1 Lvl	16/4
+1 Con = +HP	+ 26
+1 Int = +SP	+ 22
Starting Hit Points	172
Starting Spirit Points	70

   

Startup Talents: Strike, Crushing Blow(1), Stone Skin(1), Savage Sweep(1)
==>There is a new section at the bottom of this table to help you understand the inner workings of Juggernaut.

v4.2.77

Talent	AP/SP	Description
Berserk Rage   1	4/8	+8 Dmg.   3% Critical. +4 Crit Dmg. -1 Parry.  -3 Armor. Turns 8 + Leadership.  (Req Lvl 12+)
Berserk Rage   2	4/12	+11 Dmg. 6% Critical. +8% Crit Dmg  -2 Parry. -6 Armor.
Berserk Rage   3	4/18	+14 Dmg.   9% Critical. +12% Crit Dmg. -3 Parry. -12 Armor.
Berserk Rage   4	4/24	+17 Dmg. 12% Critical. +16% Crit Dmg. -3 Parry. -16 Armor.
Berserk Rage   5	4/30	+20 Dmg. 15% Critical. +20% Crit Dmg.  -4 Parry. -20 Armor.
Berserk Rage   6	4/36	+24 Dmg. 18% Critical. +24% Crit Dmg. -4 Parry. -24 Armor.
Berserk Rage   7	4/42	+28 Dmg. 21% Critical. +30% Crit Dmg. -5 Parry. -28 Armor.
Berserk Rage   8	4/50	+32 Dmg. 24% Critical. +36% Crit Dmg. -5 Parry. -34 Armor.
Berserk Rage   9	4/58	+38 Dmg. 27% Critical. +42% Crit Dmg. -6 Parry. -34 Armor.
Berserk Rage 10	4/64	+46 Dmg. 33% Critical. +50 Crit Dmg. -6 Parry. -34 Armor.
Burst of Speed  1	1/10	+1 Move-only AP. +1 Dodge     Turns 3 + Lore. Buff.
Burst of Speed  2	1/18	+1 Move-only AP. +2 Dodge
Burst of Speed  3	1/26	+2 Move-only AP. +3 Dodge
Burst of Speed  4	1/34	+2 Move-only AP. +4 Dodge
Burst of Speed  5	1/42	+3 Move-only AP. +5 Dodge
Burst of Speed  6	1/50	+3 Move-only AP. +6 Dodge
Burst of Speed  7	1/58	+4 Move-only AP. +6 Dodge
Burst of Speed  8	1/66	+4 Move-only AP. +7 Dodge.
Burst of Speed  9	1/74	+5 Move-only AP. +8 Dodge. +2 Parry
Burst of Speed 10	1/82	+5 Move-only AP. +9 Dodge. +3 Parry
Crushing Blow 1	W/2	+8 Dmg Melee Attack
Crushing Blow 2	W/3	+16 Dmg.
Crushing Blow 3	W/4	+24 Dmg.  +1 Accuracy.
Crushing Blow 4	W/5	+32  Dmg. +2 Accuracy.
Crushing Blow 5	W/6	+40 Dmg.  +2 Accuracy.
Crushing Blow 6	W/8	+48 Dmg.  +3 Accuracy.
Crushing Blow 7	W/10	+56 Dmg.  +3 Accuracy.
Crushing Blow 8	W/12	+66 Dmg.  +4 Accuracy.
Crushing Blow 9	W/14	+78 Dmg.  +4 Accuracy.
Crushing Blow 10	W/16	+90 Dmg.  +5 Accuracy.
Ferocity  1	W/16	+32 Dmg.   +2 Accuracy. Melee Attack (Req Lvl 6+)
Ferocity  2	W/22	+48 Dmg.   +3 Accuracy
Ferocity  3	W/28	+64 Dmg.    +4 Accuracy
Ferocity  4	W/36	+80 Dmg.    +5 Accuracy
Ferocity  5	W/44	+96 Dmg.    +6 Accuracy
Ferocity  6	W/54	+112 Dmg.   +7 Accuracy
Ferocity  7	W/64	+128 Dmg.   +8 Accuracy
Ferocity  8	W/76	+144 Dmg.   +9 Accuracy
Ferocity  9	W/88	+160 Dmg.  +10 Accuracy
Ferocity 10	W/100	+200 Dmg.  +11 Accuracy
Natural Mastery  1	3/8	+2 All Melee Skills. +2 Strength (extra melee damage only) T 8 + Lore.   Use any Weapon
Natural Mastery  2	3/12	+3 All Melee Skills. +3 Strength (emdo)   (Blades, Hammers, Spears)
Natural Mastery  3	3/18	+4 All Melee Skills. +4 Str (emdo)
Natural Mastery  4	3/24	+5 All Melee Skills. +5 Str (emdo)
Natural Mastery  5	3/30	+6 All Melee Skills. +6 Str (emdo)
Natural Mastery  6	3/36	+7 All Melee Skills. +7 Str (emdo) +1 Accuracy.
Natural Mastery  7	3/42	+8 All Melee Skills.  +8 Str (emdo) +2 Accuracy.
Natural Mastery  8	3/50	+9 All Melee Skills.  +9 Str (emdo) +3 Accuracy.
Natural Mastery  9	3/58	+10 All Melee Skills.  +10 Str (emdo) +4 Accuracy.
Natural Mastery 10	3/64	+12 All Melee Skills. +12 Str (emdo)  +5 Accuracy.
Juggernaut  1	W/10	+8 Dmg. +4 Accuracy. If killing blow - move forward and gain MP / SP bonuses (Req Lvl 18+)
Juggernaut  2	W/18	+14 Dmg. +5 Accuracy.   => See special rules section at end of Table <==
Juggernaut  3	W/26	+20 Dmg. +6 Accuracy.
Juggernaut  4	W/34	+26 Dmg. +7 Accuracy.   Adds AP bonus
Juggernaut  5	W/42	+32 Dmg. +8 Accuracy.
Juggernaut  6	W/50	+38 Dmg. +9 Accuracy.
Juggernaut  7	W/58	+46 Dmg. +10 Accuracy.
Juggernaut  8	W/66	+52 Dmg. +11 Accuracy.
Juggernaut  9	W/74	+58 Dmg. +12 Accuracy.
Juggernaut 10	W/82	+66 Dmg. +13 accuracy.
Phalanx Shield  1	3/6	+3 Parry.  18% Auto-Block of ranged hits. Shield Required 6+Leadership turns self buff
Phalanx Shield  2	3/10	+4 Parry.  +2 Armor.  21% Auto-block of ranged hits.
Phalanx Shield  3	3/14	+5 Parry.  +4 Armor.  24%
Phalanx Shield  4	3/18	+6 Parry.  +6 Armor.  27%
Phalanx Shield  5	3/23	+7 Parry.  +8 Armor.  30%
Phalanx Shield  6	3/28	+8 Parry. +10 Armor.  33%
Phalanx Shield  7	3/34	+9 Parry. +13 Armor.  37%
Phalanx Shield  8	3/38	+10 Parry. +16 Armor. 41%
Phalanx Shield  9	3/42	+11 Parry. +19 Armor. 46%
Phalanx Shield 10	3/48	+13 Parry. +22 Armor. 52%
Savage Sweep  1	W/2	+3 Accuracy    Melee Attack
Savage Sweep  2	W/3	+5 Accuracy.   +4 Dmg
Savage Sweep  3	W/4	+6 Accuracy.  +10 Dmg
Savage Sweep  4	W/5	+7 Accuracy.  +16 Dmg
Savage Sweep  5	W/6	+8 Accuracy.  +18 Dmg
Savage Sweep  6	W/8	+9 Accuracy.  +20 Dmg
Savage Sweep  7	W/10	+11 Accuracy. +22 Dmg
Savage Sweep  8	W/12	+12 Accuracy. +24 Dmg
Savage Sweep  9	W/14	+14 Accuracy. +26 Dmg
Savage Sweep 10	W/16	+15 Accuracy. +34 Dmg
Stone Skin 1	3/8	+20 HP.   +2 Armor.   Turns 8  + Lore .   Raises Total HP does not Heal
Stone Skin 2	3/12	+36 HP.   +5 Armor.  +2 Earth Resist.
Stone Skin 3	3/18	+80 HP.   +8 Armor.  +4 Earth Resist.
Stone Skin 4	3/24	+120 HP, +12 Armor.   +6 Earth Resist
Stone Skin 5	3/30	+150 HP. +16 Armor.   +8 Earth Resist
Stone Skin 6	3/36	+180 HP. +20 Armor.   +12 Earth Resist.
Stone Skin 7	3/42	+230 HP. +24 Armor.   +16 Earth Resist.
Stone Skin 8	3/50	+280 HP. +30 Armor. +20 Earth Resist.
Stone Skin 9	3/58	+330 HP. +36 Armor. +24 Earth Resist
Stone Skin 10	3/64	+380 HP. +42 Armor. +30 Earth Resist

Boost In Bonus (lvl 17) +8 Attributes. +14 Skills. +11 Talents.

Juggernaut: How does it work? "Hi Ho Silver Away" who was that masked fallen

If a Juggernaut attack kills an enemy monster, your Juggernaut Dice are rolled to apply special effects. In addition, you always move into the square of the dying monster, as the Juggernaut Vraes barrels forward.

Depending on the Talent level, a different Juggernaut Dice equation is used. Note that a lower Juggernaut Dice roll is better.

Levels 1-3: Rolls a D5+2 (to gain MP/SP bonuses)

Levels 4-6: Rolls a D4+1 (to gain AP/MP/SP bonuses)

Levels 7-9: Rolls a D4 (to gain mega AP/MP/SP bonuses)

Level 10: Rolls a D3 (to gain ultra AP/MP/SP bonuses)


The lower the roll the better.

If you roll a 1, you get +1 AP

If you roll a 2 or lower, you get +1 AP, and +1 MP

If you roll a 3 or lower, you get +1 MP

If you roll a 4 or lower, you get +16 SP

If you roll a 5 or lower, you get +D17 SP


Therefore, if you roll a 1, you get +2 AP, +2 MP, +16+D17 SP. As you increase in Juggernaut Level, you're rolls will continually get lower.

At Level 1-3 Juggernaut, the best you can score is +1 MP and +16+D17SP. Considering the cost of the attack is 10 / 18 / 26 SP, you can gain net positive SP if you are consistently killing targets.

When you reach level 4-6 Juggernaut, you will no longer be able to cover the SP cost of an attack without SP Drain, potions or Sacrifice, but you become eligible to get +1 AP. In this range, the results may be best if you use a 2 AP weapon, as you are more likely to gain bonus attacks because of Juggernaut than if you are using a 3 AP weapon.

When you reach level 7-9 Juggernaut, you become eligible for the +2 AP killing blow, which gains the rest of the full bonuses (+2 MP, +16+D17 SP). If you are wielding a 2 AP weapon, this is an entire bonus attack.

At level 10 Juggernaut, the least you can sore is +1 MP and +16+D17 SP, with a 33% chance of getting +1 AP and a 33% chance of getting +2 AP.

[Karjus]

I'm kind of curious as to why Juggernaut is so much more expensive in terms of spirit cost, and requires a higher level compared to Savage Sweep.

Looking at both at level 10, SS is 16 spirit while Juggernaut is 82 for only 16 more damage and 7 less accuracy. Just how is one extra AP (For the move, if it manages a kill) worth the the over 5x the cost?

[xdesperado]

Karjus while I agree that Juggernaut does appear to be a bit excessive in SP cost, especially at higher levels, it is probably due to its bonus movement that would allow Vraes to really clean house.

Picture the following; Vraes with Burst of Speed 9 giving him +5 MP and high level Juggernaut. Three enemies lined up 6, 7 & 8 squares away that other members of the party have knocked down to under 50HP. With the combination of BoS and J Vraes could go clean-up all three targets as he wouldn't have to expend any MP repositioning after each kill. Yes it would be a monster SP sink to power regularly but Vraes would be a true clean-up artist able to roam across huge chunks of the battlefield to deliver his coup-de-grace.

Note: unless I've misunderstood Juggernaut's bonus move ability, even level 1 could grant Vraes weilding a 2AP weapon the equivelant of +3 free MP in the right situations. The higher levels just make it more likely he'll be able to deliver that killing blow with the attack. It will always be best used as a finishing strike while other, cheaper Talents will see more regular use in beat down situations where he's unlikely to get a one hit kill.

[contributor]

It would be great to hear Cory Trese's or fallen's rationale behind Juggernaut. It's the one level 18 talent that really doesn't interest me at all. xdesperado's hypothetical situation has merit, but the chance of just such a scenario occurring regularly enough to make Juggernaut worthwhile doesn't seem likely.

[fallen]

contributor - our thoughts are that we are looking at fixing it It's not a Talent we have been happy with either, from a very early stage, but are still working on a new version of it. As no level 18 group has escaped the lab yet, it hasn't been an issue. Will be very soon tho!

[contributor]

What about switching it so that when Vraes moves towards an enemy he gets a massive damage blast on the following strike. That would still limit it a bit but would make a way for a big damage hit or maybe a big cursing hit. (A hit after advance reduces AP, Accuracy and Dodge etc.) Call it Stunning Blow.

[contributor]

Ooh what if his curse reduced movement points to 0 (or a percentage chance to do that). That could be nice in subsequent levels when you've got opponents that attack and then move. Vraes body slams them and all they can do is stand still and defend themselves.

[Outsider]

I like the idea of an immobilizing strike or stun for X number of rounds to go handle another enemy. Call it Knockdown or something like that.

[contributor]

How abouts we just call it the Chuck Norris

[xdesperado]

Couple ideas for Juggernaut, though not sure the game code could support them.

1) Instead of granting the bonus MP on a kill, have any successful attack (one that causes damage) reduce the AP cost of that attack by 1. You hit with a 3AP weapon but it only costs you 2AP. Would let you steamroll opponents with more attacks or free up AP to move. Of course if the attack misses or does no damage you have to pay full AP/SP for that attack.

2) Each succesful attack with Juggernaut grants a buff to Vraes HP/Armor/Parry/Dodge.
Idea here is that he's getting tougher to stop as he pounds away. The juggernaut from mythology if I remember right was this nearly indestructible engine of death that just crushed anything in its path. Wasn't fast, just relentless.

[contributor]

Actually the idea of a buff that stacks every time Vraes hits is pretty epic. It could even be good only for one turn so that as soon as he missed a hit or had to move he would lose all effects of the buff, but as long as he keeps hitting it keeps building. As long as he stands in one place hitting he just gets stronger and stronger. Obviously the buff could not include accuracy.

[En1gma]

An idea I've been bouncing around, and I wonder if anyone's tried this before...

Has anyone ever used Natural Mastery in place of putting points into actual weapon skills? I'm just thinking of different ways to play this big guy and I think this could work. Mastery to 10 immediately, after a point in BoS and then start on Savage Sweep. Or has anyone even decided to split Skill points between two weapon types and make up the difference with NM?

This allows Vraes to utilize literally every single weapon in the game other than Staffs and TK effectively, making him impossibly flexible and adaptable to any situation. This also lets him use weapons of opportunity- how many awesome weapons do you pass up just because you didn't pick that skill?

Downsides? Not developing parry or dodge makes you rely on your healer's defensive talent and V's gear for protection. Accuracy could suffer greatly, but NM grants +Acc, and enemies can be cursed, which could hopefully offset this... Other than this, an overall drop in effectiveness? Has anyone tried this before?

Upsides? Extreme flexibility allows him to use any weapon he gets his paws on. Allows a multitude of points to be spent on Lore, making NM an extremely long lasting and therefore incredibly SP efficient. Skill points could still be used in a preferred weapon type or two, while still being capable of switching to the other if needed.

Thoughts?

[anrdaemon]

Natural Mastery is just too expensive. One point of NM (after first) equals one point in respective weapon skill. Two points if you wield two different weapons. But one or two, you're crippling your actual attack or defense talents.
I can see it building up AFTER you've done the core of your talents, but before that? I regret I put second point into it too soon.

[fallen]

anrdaemon - depending on the team build, it is a great way to rapidly build up a solid pool for both offense and defense. Combined with disciplined raising of skills, it can guarantee solid accuracy for a good deal of time. It's not my favorite build, but there are forumites who rush it to 10.

[crimsonking]

NM + Weapon Skill obviously makes for extremely high melee attack and defense scores. This goes along very well with either Phalanx or Berserk builds.

Vraes generally provides really many different build strategies and seems the most well rounded of all eight characters to me.